Lucas & Wrylon Jones
LUCAS: We want to start with how we met. We were both attending Weber State University. I lived two floors above her.

WRYLON: Don’t make it sappy.

LUCAS: What’s that?

WRYLON: Don’t make it sappy.

LUCAS: That’s not going to happen. I went downstairs to get something and she was there getting a chair out of a car. I thought she was cute; she had a wonderful smile and just liked what I saw. I offered to help her carry the chair up to her room and she said no.

WRYLON: It wasn’t that heavy.

LUCAS: I did anyway. We got to know each other very quickly. We went to Church together and I’m not sure how we didn’t’ see each other yet, but there was just something different about Wrylon. I had never felt that away about anyone else. I don’t know when we officially started dating; we didn’t have much time to, but the following week was homecoming week at the university, and by the time the homecoming dance…

WRYLON: I had the cutest boy to go with, and he got the courage to ask me. He was really shy. By the time we got to homecoming I was so frustrated because I wanted to go with Lucas and not this cute boy. Not that you’re not cute.

LUCAS: Thank you. We were both already going with someone else. We went and we both had fun with our respective dates and at the end I ran back in for something. My group was outside and I had to run back in. She was there and it was a song I really liked; their group was all standing around dancing individually, and I had to dance to that song with someone. In an odd moment of courage I went up and asked her date if I could dance with her. He said yes, I don’t think he knew what to think of it.

So we danced and always before, growing up it was very awkward for me. I dated a lot and had a lot of girlfriends that I loved and really connected with. Some of my best conversations and emotional growth I had growing up was shared with these girlfriends, but it was always awkward when it came to the slow dancing at the dance. I didn’t understand it and get what the point of it was. The music was too loud to talk, but it was completely different with Wrylon.

I had never felt that way about anybody else in my life. I looked into her eyes and it didn’t matter. For me that was huge because up to this point I had habitually avoided looking into people’s eyes because there was this darkness inside of me, this secret, this thing I was just sure that someone would see. So to have this person that I felt so completely comfortable with…I was gone, my feet had wings, I was head over heels in love with her. I had never felt that way about anybody else, and I think we shared that.

We had a kind of sappy typical Mormon engagement. We got engaged after thirteen days of knowing each other. There wasn’t a formal engagement at the time; we just kind of started talking about our life together. We never mentioned marriage up to this point, it just happened.

WRYLON: Well it wasn’t a matter of what do we want to do separately in our future; it was, what are we going to do? What are our plans?

LUCAS: We both felt like we’d known each other. After we met we couldn’t remember not knowing each other. We felt like we were just a part of each other. I felt like I was more a part of myself when I was with her than I was by myself – much more. I knew that was what I wanted; this was the person I wanted to share my life with; I wanted to raise children and live through hard times with her. That commitment and feeling is what we’ve needed to get us through tough times over the years – dealing with same-sex attraction and a lot of other challenges too.

When we were engaged I told her…we were engaged for seven months and some point during that engagement, we don’t remember when…

WRYLON: A couple of months into it.

LUCAS: I sat her down and I said, “I’ve got to tell you something.” I had been counseled to…the only person I’d ever told that I was same-gender attracted prior to this was a priesthood leader. Mostly because I just needed to tell someone at that point; I’d never told anybody or acted on those inclinations, I just needed to get it off my chest. He counseled me at the time, he said, “Don’t tell your wife.” That didn’t sit well with me. I didn’t see how I could go into this relationship with secrets.

It scared me to death to tell her. I just thought this was totally a deal breaker. So I blundered…I didn’t even feel comfortable enough to come out and say, “I’m attracted to men.” I kind of blundered through it.

WRYLON: I don’t remember what he said.

LUCAS: And she said, “Okay.”

WRYLON: No frame of reference whatsoever.

LUCAS: We were both madly in love; a young couple.

WRYLON: We were getting married.

LUCAS: And she’s getting married. I think I could have told her about anything at that point and it would have been okay. But I think it’s different because…

WRYLON: I honestly didn’t have any frame of reference. None.

LUCAS: That was it; that was good and I was very happy not talking anymore about it.

WRYLON: And I didn’t know to talk about it.

LUCAS: About a year after we got married we attended…I was dealing with some pornography issues and at my bishop’s counsel we attended an Evergreen conference. We enjoyed the company and the people we talked to, but I was in complete denial at that time. I was convinced this was something I was going to get over; this was something I was going to fix. I had all these plans in place, this game plan, and I was going to beat this. To me overcoming it was that I would be normal, I would be attracted to women; I saw it as an addiction.

WRYLON: The conference was fun and I had fun because we sat by fun people.

LUCAS: Lunch was great.

WRYLON: Yeah, lunch was great! Enjoyable company, but the conference itself was a downer.

LUCAS: We weren’t at a point in our lives that we needed that.

WRYLON: No, we’d been married a year, life is wonderful, and I think I blocked out all the stories and things we heard because they weren’t uplifting to me. They might have been stories of repentance and hope and things like that, but someone married for a year whose husband has never acted on that, that isn’t hope…so I think I just blocked it all out.

LUCAS: So fast forward about ten years after that. After that conference I don’t think we ever talked about it again in those next ten years. The whole time I was living with it every day and every time I saw a guy. There was this part of me that I had to beat down and suppress. The way I’ve told it to people before is imagine that you feel like you need to repent of what you are, not of anything you did, but just a part of you. At the time I never would have described myself as gay or even SSA. To me the term, thinking that I’m same-sex attracted meant that there was something wrong with me, I wasn’t normal, and that I should be normal. I was convinced this was something I was going to get over.

So I was trying to control every aspect of me; I was so afraid. Thinking back I don’t know how I ever…it was amazing to me how much control my mind had over my perceptions. While I was consciously thinking that I didn’t deal with this and that it was going to go away, there was a deeper part of me that I think knew it wasn’t going to; that was…even to the trying to control how I gestured, how I spoke, the things I liked, and how I walked. I was so afraid that someone was going to find out I was attracted to men.

I need to talk a little bit about my upbringing and why that was so terrifying to me because I’d never been around anyone that was openly gay except for one brief moment. So there was nothing in my life that I can think of that would have directly given that to me. The only interaction that I had was from media. I remember from a very early age, I was eight years old the first time I was noticing a difference in what I was interested in at that age, in listening to other kids talk. That became more apparent to me as I entered puberty and onward; it was very apparent to me there was something different about me and there shouldn’t be; that is what I thought. I just needed to be very careful about what people saw.

WRYLON: And it wore you out.

LUCAS: It did. My sister said to me, she said, “You were happy; you had a happy childhood.” In general I was. I had a wonderful childhood.

WRYLON: And adulthood. You were happy, but you were just tired…you were wearing yourself out.

LUCAS: It was. So over the years this constant…and every time I had any thought about men or about any type of attraction towards men I would immediately try and rationalize it away, try and squash it, try and get rid of it. But in the meantime I was desperate for connection with men; for love and acceptance.

WRYLON: But you were not okay to seek that out.

LUCAS: I had learned as a man that it is not okay to have needs; you just do it, you’re just strong, and you’re the strength. You keep going through whatever. It wasn’t okay for men to be emotional and it wasn’t okay to show emotion as a man. That was very challenging for me; I’m a very emotional individual.

WRYLON: To show emotion to other men? Or to show emotion….?

LUCAS: I guess mostly to other men.

WRYLON: Because you did show emotion to me to and the kids.

LUCAS: That is true. So to other men, and for me as a gay man I need that; I need that closeness and I need to be able to express that and live with that. I didn’t understand that at all at the time. It was a very separate part of me. I felt at times as if I had two lives, two parts of me – the public part that everybody saw, and the strange part that I didn’t know what to do with.

But I lived with it; I was so afraid and ashamed of it that I kept it completely hidden. I was so afraid of my feelings and my potential feelings for other people, other men, that I never pursued it in any form or aspect.

WRYLON: Any friendships. Close…

LUCAS: Even friendships. I had some close friends, but they were very unemotional and somewhat distant friendships looking back. There were people that I felt safe around. I still very much value the friendship and consider them some of my best friends to this day.

WRYLON: They were good friends.

LUCAS: I went on through high school, served a mission, and people have asked me if that was challenging for me or hard, or how did any same-sex attraction affect that. It didn’t at all. It was a wonderful time for me; I was in a position where I had the same three companions for the majority of my mission. We just kept trading companionships and these men became my brothers. I was in a place where I could live and interact; it is a very emotional time comparatively to your average man’s life.

Being on a mission you are so involved with other people’s lives that I was able to be myself and felt comfortable, allowing myself to be in a way that I never had been able to before. Some of my companions were very…they saw my needs, they saw me as one that was very afraid of himself. One companion saw my potential, and I couldn’t see that myself and so he worked to try and bring that out of me. For the first time in my life I felt like I was able to connect to another guy at the level that I needed as a brother, as a friend, and at the time I didn’t think that that was just enough for me, and it was wonderful.

So I finished my mission and went away to college and was working as an editor for the college newspaper. This was the first time I’d been around the internet and there I discovered all kinds of things around the internet out there for anyone to look at. I very quickly became addicted to pornography. I worked with the bishop at the time and was able to manage it. I was able to attend the temple and marry my wife in the temple, but all throughout my youth, jr. high, high school, and onward I had struggled with masturbation addiction and then this pornography addiction.

I attributed a lot of my attractions…I had convinced myself it was related to those. That was what had caused it, maybe some other things from my childhood. There was no abuse in my childhood; just things that people told me had created this story, this network I had used to maintain this image of myself that I wanted to present. I was convinced of that, so when I finally as an adult man overcame these addictions to the point where I felt like they weren’t a problem in my life anymore…it was very bittersweet. I felt accomplished and I learned so much about the atonement. I gained such strength and a belief in God as He helped me work through these things.

So now we’re up to this ten year point about ten years after we attended this conference. After overcoming these addictions my attractions were stronger; stronger than they’d ever been. I was really forced to consider the fact that I was gay. It was a growing awareness. More and more I became terrified of thoughts…in interacting with my wife we’ve always had a wonderfully intimate relationship; we have great sex. I remember thinking that there was no way she could understand me. How could she because here I am in this life…

WRYLON: I think you were terrified that I would run.

LUCAS: I was. I remember thinking that if she only knew what was going on inside my head that she would leave me. There is no way that she could be okay with this. And what was going on in my head at the time was…

WRYLON: And I was clueless. I didn’t know to be concerned about anything.

LUCAS: I put on a really good show.

WRYLON: Even though he told me to his understanding what he dealt with before we got married it didn’t mean anything, and I didn’t have any reason for it to mean anything. Babies and life…I had no idea what was going on.

LUCAS: Our intimacy was real, the feelings I felt for her was real, the love I have for her was real, deeper than I have ever felt for anyone else, and still to this day there is nobody that I feel for as strongly as I do for Wrylon.

My tangent for a second – I remember my grandparents, my mom’s parents – they were the epitome of true love. I remember them as an old couple sitting there; neither of them was overly emotional, but on many occasions I remember sitting there watching them; they’d hold each other’s hands sitting distant, but the way they looked into each other’s eyes…they didn’t have to say anything. I knew I wanted that; I wanted that love. That’s what life was about. I knew that and I found that with Wrylon.

I couldn’t imagine life without her. I told her once later that she has no idea what she does for me. I told her that she was the only thing keeping me from being gay.

WRYLON: Keeping you from choosing that lifestyle.

LUCAS: That is what I said to her, “Keeping me from being gay.” That is what I meant. Yeah, from choosing to pursue a same-gender relationship. What was going on inside my head was a confusion of why I wasn’t attracted to her in the way that I should be…was the thought that I had. I wasn’t sexually attracted to her. I wanted to be intimate with her and I wanted to share that with her, but I began to realize that I didn’t see her in the way that men normally see women. I hated that thought because I knew how important it was to her that I find her attractive and beautiful.

So I hid that from her for years, but at this point with my attractions to men growing stronger I began to feel…

WRYLON: So they were stronger because you no longer had the addictions and so you no longer could hide behind that.

LUCAS: Yeah, I was tired, exhausted, and emotionally drained. I couldn’t keep up controlling what other people saw, and I felt like I was lying to her.

WRYLON: Well you had spent your life trying to control everything you thought. More so everything the way you talked and the way you did things. It was all your perception because you’re not really that different, but he was trying to control everything, and you can’t do that for decades.

LUCAS: Well I did.

WRYLON: Not without wearing yourself out.

LUCAS: She asked me one night; I think she was beginning to feel something different. I don’t remember why, but she asked me…

WRYLON: Well I think you struggled at different times, but my thought was he is having a bad day or a bad week. I had no idea what was going on in his head. I had no reason to know.

LUCAS: She asked me at one point, and I’d been dealing quite heavily with hating myself because of these complications because I wasn’t who I thought I should be. She said, “Don’t you need me in the same way I need you?” I’m thinking no, I don’t, but how can I say that?

WRYLON: But what I asked and what he heard was not the same. We were not on the same page.

LUCAS: I told her what made sense to me. I said, okay, we’re different people so no, I need you differently. We’re just different people. What she heard was…

WRYLON: Well I think what I heard was, my husband is gay and he doesn’t want to be intimate with me, I don’t know.

LUCAS: Anything that went along with that…

WRYLON: I didn’t believe the thought, but I didn’t know what to think. I think that was the first time I thought my husband was gay. I knew what that meant…so that’s not him…so…

LUCAS: I don’t think she knew how to process it or what to do with it. So for about two and a half years it started a very complicated part of our life. We had some medical issues that came up too and then that result was that Wrylon ended up in a very depressed place and…

WRYLON: Well I was sick too, so…

LUCAS: I was more so than ever constantly dealing with this growing fear that I was gay and I didn’t know what I was going to do. I was starting to look for…I didn’t know what. But I needed something more; I became aware of a need that was not being filled and I had no idea how to fill it. I began to hope for, and kind of look for opportunities to talk to anyone who was gay and to feel out what I was going through. Is this really what I’m feeling or maybe this is in my mind? I didn’t know.

I was just so confused; I didn’t know what was going on and I was dealing with this everyday inside my head. I was not happy with the way I was acting as a father and husband. I was dealing with so much anger and frustration; I was always short tempered and looking for coping mechanisms to deal with this stress; just run a little bit more, go on a longer hike, read a book, anything I could do to manage what was going on inside my head. It was marginally working.

I think a lot of what kept me stable up to this point – there were two things – life was busy. At this point we had four children and a full-time job.

WRLYON: Little children.

LUCAS: All the complexities of life kept me busy. The second thing is that I was able to experience the awesome things that come from having a family. Every time one of your children is born…jus to hold a new baby, my new child in my arms, to see, and to know that this is part of our family, and through those experiences as a couple.

The most important thing for us is that we’re best friends. I can’t imagine anyone I’d rather do pretty much anything with. We share everything and we’ve always been….well except for what was going on in my head we had shared everything up to this point. We did everything together and we still do.

People have asked us as we’ve shared our story, people have been surprised. They said, “But you love each other so much.” We say, “Yes, we do. Isn’t it great?” Because we do.

WRYLON: You’re so loving with me!

LUCAS: I am, I’m so affectionate. We’re the ones you’re going to catch kissing in the pews at Church. I love sharing that affection and I’m very affectionate; she is the love of my life. That kept me going and the joys of raising our children kept me going; there is so much that my life was full with. That kept me going, but there came a time when that wasn’t enough.

I was worn out and I couldn’t do it anymore on my own because I’d been trying for so many reasons because that is just what you do. So June of 2012 Josh and Lolly Weed came out and shared their ten year anniversary blog post and video. They were at the same place as us, Mormon, married, and gay with children, and happy. Wrylon called me at work, and you have to remember that for about ten years we haven’t talked about this at all. She calls me at work out of the blue and she says, “You have to read this. Here is someone in the same place as us. You’re Mormon, you’re married, and you’re gay and it is okay.”

WRYLON: That is the puzzle piece that I needed. I had little bits and pieces, but until then I hadn’t connected it all and it was at that point I could connect. Oh, my husband is gay and I know what that means. I can put those puzzle pieces together, and here is another couple and it is okay. So not only was I given this last puzzle piece, but I was given it in a way that said, “Here it is, and it is okay. It is something that is doable.”

LUCAS: So as soon as she said that to me we read it the thought that crossed my mind was exactly this – maybe it is okay. It was just a maybe even. As soon as that thought crossed my mind I felt an overwhelming feeling of love from God like I had never in my life felt before. It was one of the strongest feelings I’ve ever felt. The thoughts that came to my mind were, “I made you this way, I’m sorry it sucks; it is what you need.” My world turned upside down; our life turned upside down at that point. We didn’t know it was in a place to be able to turn upside down.

The next year was a year of acceptance; a journey of acceptance for both of us. I allowed myself to be a man attracted to men – began to be – it took a while. Wrylon was there by my side working through it of what does this mean, what does it mean for you, for us, for her, what does it mean for our children? What does that mean?

I had to live through…I never let myself experience any type of romantic feelings. I thought I felt them for Wrylon and maybe I did in a way, but the feelings that I had for her were different. I never felt this way about anyone, but for the first time in my life I was able to experience this portion of me that was just as real as any other part of me. For the first time in my life I noticed people checking me out.

WRYLON: Well we had come to the consensus that wasn’t the first time someone checked you out, it was the first time you noticed.

LUCAS: No, but I noticed. It was a guy and I remember, wow this feels really good. As we’ve talked about it I’ve had to relive through the developmental stages from jr. high up to my current age. I went through the new intense feelings of a twelve year old, the slightly more stable feelings of a fourteen year old, and the crushes of a sixteen year old. All those things I had to go through them, but it was on fast forward; first of all I felt like I had to live jr. high and high school all over again.

WRYLON: Which I found humorous. He didn’t find it so funny.

LUCAS: I would come to her, “I’ve got a crush on a guy, what do I do about?” We would walk through it and that was so essential to me. I knew that I was safe with her and so bit by bit I began to share with her what was in my head – piece by piece, drop by drop, and every single step of the way…I was going to say she didn’t bat an eyelash, but sometimes she did and sometimes it was okay. But she began to know me and she still loved me…and she loved me even more somehow. And because she was a safe place for me to be I stayed there.

WRYLON: Well the first six months of it was fun. We did it on our own and it was cute and he was cute about it.

LUCAS: Like twelve year old cute; fourteen year old girl cute – it was kind of weird.

WRYLON: He didn’t come to me in a worrisome way.

LUCAS: It wasn’t as ashamed, it was more of embarrassed.

WRYLON: Yeah, what do I do with this?

LUCAS: How do I deal this? I’ve never had a crush before; how do I deal with this?

WRYLON: It was sweet – he came to me sweetly. I think that made…

LUCAS: It made all the difference.

WYLON: It did because that allowed me to be comfortable because he was coming to me sweetly and saying, “Help me deal with this and figure this out.”

LUCAS: It was a very exciting time. Every day was so different and so exhilarating. I felt so free and like a tremendous weight was lifted.

WRYLON: Well you could be you.

LUCAS: Yeah!

WRYLON: You were no longer trying to hide or control.

LUCAS: I was an entirely different person; I hated crowds before this and being around people.

WRYLON: Well the month before June he had attended a conference and he came over every day just, ugh.

LUCAS: Drained, exhausted.

WRYLON: Just drained and too many people and he wanted to be by himself.

LUCAS: That was regular and was all the time.

WRYLON: He attended a conference about five months later and he came home and he was like, “This conference is cool, and I got to meet people!” I was like, who are you!?

LUCAS: I was exhilarated. This conference had pumped me up; it was a computer conference and was not even exhilarating, but it was just from the meeting people – I met this person and this person. I’d be bored at work and I’d go around meeting strangers to talk to. That was me – it was the me that I’d never been. I loved it.

WRYLON: You were scared to be.

LUCAS: I was scared to be; scared that people would see me.

WRYLON: Well and to top it off – in January he went to New York and he came home and he was like, “There is not enough people here!” He loved being around people.

LUCAS: I fell in love with New York.

WRYLON: I was like, you hate being around people; people wear you out.

LUCAS: I’m a new me. Very early on in this journey it was readily apparent to me that God was guiding every single day of my life; every single step of this journey. I made a commitment to God. I said, “I will go wherever you take me on this journey because I have no comprehension of where this will end or where it can go. You brought me to this point so I am yours; I’m going to follow wherever you take me.”

That also made all the difference in the world to the point where we’re here today. What God did for us was continue to put people in our path every step of the way. There were many times we felt we were doing this on our own, but out of the blue we would meet random strangers that would come into our life and that are now some of our closest friends. Most of them dealt with same-sex attraction too, not all.

WRYLON: We met them at random places.

LUCAS: They would say the exact things that we needed to hear at that time – time and time again. I knew God was taking care of us. There was no doubt in my mind and it continues to this day. So that first year was just wonderful; the journey of acceptance.

Over that time I began to feel a desire to share and it was terrifying. I had never done anything scarier in my life than telling that first person. He was so accepting in really trying to understand. He didn’t run away from me screaming; he seemed like he was more interested in being my friend because of the trust he felt like I had given him in sharing this. I experienced that time and again; every time it gave me courage and every time it felt like it was the scariest thing I’d done up to that point.

Then we began to share our story as a couple. The reason we’re here today is because I would be ungrateful to God and all who helped me if I didn’t return the favor somehow. It seems so foreign to me thinking back from where I am now that I was ever in such a scared, afraid, and dark place that I was at the time because my whole world has opened up.

I started an anonymous blog and I wanted to share my story and to be open. I learned the importance of being vulnerable in surviving this, and being open and authentic. I needed to do that, but I was doing it anonymously; it was the best I could do at the time.

WRYLON: That was scary enough.

LUCAS: It was; it was terrifying. Wrylon also started a blog. It was kind of exciting picking our names we were going to use on the blog, and we did it together. We meant to share our story and she was looking for other blogs to link to and so she went looking.

WRYLON: I didn’t know where to look and so I just picked some typical Mormon homosexual type blog places to look because I assumed I would find stuff and I didn’t.

LUCAS: Oh she found a lot of stuff, but it wasn’t what she was looking for.

WRYLON: It was stories that weren’t our story. After looking at pages and pages and pages I couldn’t find anything.

LUCAS: It was important to us to find…we needed the support of those who were in the place we were at.

WRYLON: Well I just assumed there were a lot of people. You know? This is our life; I assumed there were other people.

LUCAS: She found lots of people in other places, but nobody where we were.

WRYLON: Well and nobody else had been married as long as we had.

LUCAS: Nobody we had found at that point.


LUCAS: That the spouse with same-gender attraction had not gone and pursued those attractions at some point. So I think the thought that went through your mind was…

WRYLON: That there is no hope.

LUCAS: There is no hope; he is going to screw up.

WRYLON: He is going to leave me and the kids and our marriage is over. It might not be over right this minute, but it is going to be, so why continue? This is pointless, and I was done. I was like, our marriage is done and I’m going to go down this route. If this is where it is going to end up and I couldn’t find anywhere else and I didn’t know where to look. So I was done.

What brought me out was I had a lot of time to think; I spent a lot of time crying. I had to drive the kids back and forth places so when I did I was bawling. I remember coming home and sitting down and trying to figure out who to talk to, and there was only one person who knew at the time that he had come out to. I was thinking, well maybe I can go talk to this person though I didn’t know what he would say or anything.

Lucas came and sat beside me. It was the biggest struggle of my life; here was my sweetheart, the man I loved. I wanted him to put his arms around me and tell me it was okay and make it all okay, but I didn’t want anything to do with him because he was going to hurt me and this was done. The thought came to me just to trust. I’ve gotten you this far, just trust. I’m like, yeah right, did you read what I read? There is no hope, no possibility. I just was told just to trust. I was like, okay I could try that out.

We have since found other couples and learned in this day and age it is now becoming more acceptable and okay to be open where in the past it hasn’t. At that time we had no intention of coming out so to expect others to have been more vulnerable probably wasn’t very nice of me.

This is one of the reasons we felt it important to share, because I don’t want another wife trying to find somewhere when this is working and this is wonderful and I don’t have any issues with him being same-sex attracted or gay or whatever. I don’t really think it effects our marriage.

LUCAS: Sure it does, but not adversely. It is part of who we are.

WRYLON: Not any more than any other two people together. I don’t want another wife going to try to find hope and there be none. There is, and there are a lot of couples like us; just not everyone has had a reason to open their mouths.

LUCAS: It is still a challenge. It is still a challenge a lot of times for me – for us. She is still working on that trust bit I think.

WRYLON: Yeah, I think so. It was a blow because the first six months of our journey was fun. There were a few things I had to process; that is fair because every time something new comes up you have to process stuff, but it was fun and so it wasn’t…I think it scared me, and it scared me real bad. It was something I didn’t realize was an issue, so I didn’t think to think it was an issue at all. Suddenly here was this issue; this thought that he is not going to be faithful to me and that had never crossed my mind before. That was really…for any wife I imagine that is scary.

LUCAS: The complexities of same-gender attraction are still there; they are still very real and I am still programmed to seek out male relationships and as the more I move on with it the more complex it gets.

WRYLON: Past the twelve – he is cute – stage.

LUCSAS: I have a desire to seek out long term male relationships. It is there and I don’t know if it will ever not be there, but I can’t…I’ve learned that is just a small part of me. I’m learning how to deal with that and how to manage that, but I have a wonderful foundation to build on for that. I’ve learned that this is what I want; it is what I believed I wanted in the first place.

It is wonderful for me to come back to this point after a long journey and to find that this is still what I want; I am still happy and still satisfied. Some days I’m not entirely sure how it is going to work, but I have hope that it is going to. I trust God; God has got me to this point and I’m still going to stick with what I’ve told Him. I’m going to keep moving forward. He has never let me down and I can’t think of anyone I would rather go through this journey with than with my best friend.

WRYLON: I have learned that the same-sex attraction part of a person is just a small part of who they are and it helps make them who they are. Many of the qualities of that are wonderful qualities and there is the complication of attraction, but that is such a small part of life. The world makes it this grand ultimate part of life and it is not. It could be, but that doesn’t bring happiness. What brings happiness is when you make that the whole part of your life.

With Lucas I can see that same-sex attraction part and it is actually a wonderful part. The attraction is just a small part that I actually think helps him have better relationships and I think it makes him a better father, better friend, and person – and especially as we have young children who are shortly being the age of having to deal with those type things – he understands it because he has been through it. I see the same-sex attraction part as a good part of him, and I don’t see it negatively at all.

LUCAS: I have learned that in order for me to be the man I wanted to be, I had to accept that I was attracted to men.

WRYLON: You had to be you.

LUCAS: I had to be me and at the time it seemed like such a big thing and so much of my life that I felt was such a big thing…it was so much in front of me; I was so focused on it that I couldn’t see anything other than that at the time. Life is bigger than that. To tell myself, don’t lose sight of the whole – don’t focus on a part and lose sight of the whole.

WRYLON: Yeah. You’d focused so long on that part that you couldn’t be yourself; because you are a very different person than you were then.

LUCAS: For me that is what life is about; it is saying, I want to be something I’m not – I want to be better than I am. I don’t know what that is yet and so I have to believe the things I’m doing to do are going to take me there. God is taking me there. I used to pray…I spent so long praying that my same-sex attraction would be taken away and I’m learning that He is taking me where I want to be, not without my same-sex attraction, but with it.

WRYLON: And to become who you want to be; who you want to become.

LUCAS: And that I can be happy; not that I can’t be, but that He truly does want me to be happy and healthy in this; I can live according to the precepts of my religion and find a way to be whole and happy in this.